Is buying gold illegal? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Josh · Jun 22, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Penguin

Most of the websites that sell gold say: "We are not selling the gold itself, you are paying for the time that we spent collecting the gold, you are not playing for the gold itself". If you pay for gold, its illegal, but if you pay for the person's time, well *you* can say its not illegal, but then again I don't think ANet will think positively of you. You can still be banned probably.

Just don't give into those lame statements.

EDIT: queenakasha already stated this. My apologies for not reading everything before posting.

Yeah but the thing is.

You are actually buying the item (gold). They can't say there buying the time it took to get the gold, you can't BUY time, you can't give time, you are generally buying/selling gold, which is against the EULA, it's not 'illegal' in a sense that the FBI, Police or Riot Police are gonna come to your house and kick your door down and arrest you. It's just against the EULA, which is agreeing that you play by ArenaNet's rules.

Although, to be honest, I do think you was considering buying it, if you wasn't, you wouldn't of made this topic.

Fyre Brand · Jun 22, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkey grip

i see your point, but there is two sides to every coin, it just depends how much time and hassle it is for them to deal with it, i;m not saying it shouldn't be looked at, just thinking outside thebubble

Gaile (ANet Community Relations Representative) has stated that they ban accounts all the time for ToS/EULA violations. This includes, but isn't limited to buying/selling gold and items for real world currency and using third party programs. On the official Guild Wars site they recently announced banning 1000 accounts for these types of violations. If you want to see the original article go to http://guildwars.com and read the news archives.

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 22, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I just gave one of my daughters 200K gold so her character could buy ascended armors in Cantha.

How does ArenaNet know that I didn't sell her the gold, but that I gave her some from my stockpile?

Or is it a EULA/TOS violation for me to give someone else large quantities of gold?

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 22, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

I just gave one of my daughters 200K gold so her character could buy ascended armors in Cantha.

How does ArenaNet know that I didn't sell her the gold, but that I gave her some from my stockpile?

Or is it a EULA/TOS violation for me to give someone else large quantities of gold?

This is exactly why ArenaNet will not go after the people on the selling end of the eBay gold; they have no way of knowing whether large scale transfers are actually paid for outside of the game. Instead, ArenaNet is trying to trace the gold across accounts from the botters that earn it to the end purchaser and issue bans from there (or at least that would be my best guess). Of course, the gold can be split and traded into so many accounts that it becomes very hard to trace, and again I agree that this probably is not (nor should it be) ArenaNet's primary focus personnel-wise.

If you ask me, (and I know I've stated this before), the most effective way to get rid of "eBayers" is for ArenaNet to pretend to be a gold purchaser and then issue bans to whatever account trades with them. It would require one guy to surf eBay once a day and then wait for a trade window to pop open, then ban. It wouldn't cost ArenaNet money for the gold because the trade could be cancelled, just whatever wages/salary the one guy gets paid. Seriously, it's that simple. This would eliminate the profit margins of the botters, and they would close up shop and find a more lucrative game to profit from.

Former Ruling · Jun 22, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomlord_Slayermann

This is exactly why ArenaNet will not go after the people on the selling end of the eBay gold; they have no way of knowing whether large scale transfers are actually paid for outside of the game. Instead, ArenaNet is trying to trace the gold across accounts from the botters that earn it to the end purchaser and issue bans from there (or at least that would be my best guess). Of course, the gold can be split and traded into so many accounts that it becomes very hard to trace, and again I agree that this probably is not (nor should it be) ArenaNet's primary focus personnel-wise.

If you ask me, (and I know I've stated this before), the most effective way to get rid of "eBayers" is for ArenaNet to pretend to be a gold purchaser and then issue bans to whatever account trades with them. It would require one guy to surf eBay once a day and then wait for a trade window to pop open, then ban. It wouldn't cost ArenaNet money for the gold because the trade could be cancelled, just whatever wages/salary the one guy gets paid. Seriously, it's that simple. This would eliminate the profit margins of the botters, and they would close up shop and find a more lucrative game to profit from.

They already can trace who is buying the gold , why have to do it themselves?

ChaoticCoyote · Jun 22, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

They already can trace who is buying the gold , why have to do it themselves?

And how do they *know* who is buying gold, and who is getting a gift?

Also, they need to talk to Google. Do almost any search on "Guild Wars" to see ads for gold farmers pop up...

Former Ruling · Jun 22, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

And how do they *know* who is buying gold, and who is getting a gift?

Also, they need to talk to Google. Do almost any search on "Guild Wars" to see ads for gold farmers pop up...

They can trace it from eBay - not only from inside the game.

Big_Iron · Jun 22, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Isn't this horse dead already?

Mayh3m · Jun 22, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

hehe well its illegal like in everygame to buy or sell pixel over the internet but yes if you use the right sentence to sell your pixies well you gonna be in "legal" way to sell it. But watch out for scammers and other things like that. For me I think buying cash on ebay is a waste of money cuz how come like 2M pixies can worth like 50 buck lol anyway I wouldnt never buy pixies.

shadowfell · Jun 23, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

It's a double edged sword. If you ebay, you are breaking the eula, and you are ruining the economy. People complain things are so expensive, and then go ebay gold to be able to afford them. The farmers laugh, because not only did they sell you the gold to begin with for real money, but then they take the fake gold right back from you when you buy whatever from them for 100+70 ectos. And then repeat, sell the ecto and the gold right back to you on ebay. It's a vicious cycle. If ebay gold was eliminated completely, eventually the market would settle because then the majority of gold would be permanently sunk into armors and dyes wasted, rather than sitting in a storage account, waiting for someone to pay whatever the current going rate for 1000k is on ebay.

It would take a while, I admit because currently, there is a huge surplus of in game gold being hoarded with storage accounts meant for just that, storage for a rainy day, and the combined storage of ebay farming guilds, but it would happen. For whatever reason AN hasn't figured out a way to wipe out the ebay habits of people, and the guilds providing the gold for retail sale, but I retain faith that they will.

I find it ironic that the drop rate was increased to lower prices, yet things still sell for amazing amounts and in a lot of cases, even more than they would have in chapter 1. It tells me that ebay gold is alive and well, and that a greater percentage of the game population is doing it now with chapter 2 out, than had previously done so in chapter 1.

Doomlord_Slayermann · Jun 23, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

They can trace it from eBay - not only from inside the game.

No they cannot. eBay and Guild Wars accounts are in no way connected to each other - as I mentioned earlier they would have to do some underground work to make that connection.

Does-it-Matter · Jun 23, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

Yeah but the thing is.

You are actually buying the item (gold). They can't say there buying the time it took to get the gold, you can't BUY time, you can't give time, you are generally buying/selling gold, which is against the EULA, it's not 'illegal' in a sense that the FBI, Police or Riot Police are gonna come to your house and kick your door down and arrest you. It's just against the EULA, which is agreeing that you play by ArenaNet's rules.

Although, to be honest, I do think you was considering buying it, if you wasn't, you wouldn't of made this topic.

I give someone thirty bucks to do whatever they want for 30 minutes. If at the end of that thirty minutes, they decide to do something for me, so be it.

I give someone $49.99 to play guild wars. If at the end of a certain amount of time, they decide to give me gold, so be it. (sidenote: This is technically no different than if you buy the game for them, whether as a gift, favor or what not.)

There, I just paid someone for their time, and only their time.

Its a loophole, just like any other, that comes with an "understanding." The understanding is that you get gold with it, it's not a requirement (or else it would be against the EULA).

This is the same way thousands of house parties get around the liquor liscense and selling alcohol to minor laws. You don't buy alcohol. You buy a cup. It's not illegal to sell anyone a cup. If there happens to be alcohol out, and if a person happens to fill that cup up with it, so be it. The understanding that comes with buying a cup, is that there is alcohol readily availible.

Though ANet gets a little more freedom than "the Law." The law is an agreed upon set of rules (much like the EULA), that requires heavy legislation to correct. Guild Wars is held on private servers that you must join to play. Thus, you are held by the whims of the owners. If they decide to change something, its well within their right to do it on the spot. You understand this the second you purchase the game.

That is the difference.

And its been said several times before, but I'll say it again. Don't EBay. Earn it like everyone else. Save your money for food, or shinny new objects.

Nick The Nicker · Jun 23, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

I give someone thirty bucks to do whatever they want for 30 minutes. If at the end of that thirty minutes, they decide to do something for me, so be it.

I give someone $49.99 to play guild wars. If at the end of a certain amount of time, they decide to give me gold, so be it. (sidenote: This is technically no different than if you buy the game for them, whether as a gift, favor or what not.)

There, I just paid someone for their time, and only their time.

Its a loophole, just like any other, that comes with an "understanding." The understanding is that you get gold with it, it's not a requirement (or else it would be against the EULA).

This is the same way thousands of house parties get around the liquor liscense and selling alcohol to minor laws. You don't buy alcohol. You buy a cup. It's not illegal to sell anyone a cup. If there happens to be alcohol out, and if a person happens to fill that cup up with it, so be it. The understanding that comes with buying a cup, is that there is alcohol readily availible.

Though ANet gets a little more freedom than "the Law." The law is an agreed upon set of rules (much like the EULA), that requires heavy legislation to correct. Guild Wars is held on private servers that you must join to play. Thus, you are held by the whims of the owners. If they decide to change something, its well within their right to do it on the spot. You understand this the second you purchase the game.

That is the difference.

And its been said several times before, but I'll say it again. Don't EBay. Earn it like everyone else. Save your money for food, or shinny new objects.

I agree with you, you hit it right on the nose

Ultra Peepi · Jun 23, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

wow, i started a interesting thread. lol

queenakasha · Jun 24, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

Yeah but the thing is.

You are actually buying the item (gold). They can't say there buying the time it took to get the gold, you can't BUY time, you can't give time, you are generally buying/selling gold, which is against the EULA, it's not 'illegal' in a sense that the FBI, Police or Riot Police are gonna come to your house and kick your door down and arrest you. It's just against the EULA, which is agreeing that you play by ArenaNet's rules.

Although, to be honest, I do think you was considering buying it, if you wasn't, you wouldn't of made this topic.

You are wrong, they are paying for the TIME spent, as they clearly indicate in their websites, the wording of what theyre selling is the reason they can get away with it. Just look at my comparison with sex escorts, it's the same thing thing. You're paying for the persons time and the sex/gold is something consentual that happens at the end.

The way the gold sellers see it, they are getting $x for x hours of their farming efforts, they're being payed for their time and gold or guild wars is not even part of the equation. I'm neither encouraging or discouraging them I'm just stating the fact that they CAN get away with this, and why.

On the other hand if someone is selling a Kanaxai Axe on ebay for $5, that would be seen as just wrong and there's no way around that.

Gold sellers won't go away.. the REAL problem underneath this all are BOTS. If bots are being used to farm gold, that is the major problem here for the guild wars economy and us. If the bots can be totally dimished, prices for things may start to settle.

Jun 22, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58	#23
ChaoticCoyote Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Florida, USA Guild: Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY] Profession: R/	I just gave one of my daughters 200K gold so her character could buy ascended armors in Cantha. How does ArenaNet know that I didn't sell her the gold, but that I gave her some from my stockpile? Or is it a EULA/TOS violation for me to give someone else large quantities of gold? Last edited by ChaoticCoyote; Jun 22, 2006 at 07:34 PM // 19:34..

Jun 22, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42	#28
Big_Iron Desert Nomad Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Edge Guild: Tormented Weapons [emo]	Isn't this horse dead already?

Jun 22, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46	#29
Mayh3m Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Montreal Guild: Mind H A C K [OMG] Profession: W/	hehe well its illegal like in everygame to buy or sell pixel over the internet but yes if you use the right sentence to sell your pixies well you gonna be in "legal" way to sell it. But watch out for scammers and other things like that. For me I think buying cash on ebay is a waste of money cuz how come like 2M pixies can worth like 50 buck lol anyway I wouldnt never buy pixies.

Jun 23, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28	#30
shadowfell hamonite anur ruk Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Echovald Forest Guild: [PhD] Teh Academy Profession: Me/A	It's a double edged sword. If you ebay, you are breaking the eula, and you are ruining the economy. People complain things are so expensive, and then go ebay gold to be able to afford them. The farmers laugh, because not only did they sell you the gold to begin with for real money, but then they take the fake gold right back from you when you buy whatever from them for 100+70 ectos. And then repeat, sell the ecto and the gold right back to you on ebay. It's a vicious cycle. If ebay gold was eliminated completely, eventually the market would settle because then the majority of gold would be permanently sunk into armors and dyes wasted, rather than sitting in a storage account, waiting for someone to pay whatever the current going rate for 1000k is on ebay. It would take a while, I admit because currently, there is a huge surplus of in game gold being hoarded with storage accounts meant for just that, storage for a rainy day, and the combined storage of ebay farming guilds, but it would happen. For whatever reason AN hasn't figured out a way to wipe out the ebay habits of people, and the guilds providing the gold for retail sale, but I retain faith that they will. I find it ironic that the drop rate was increased to lower prices, yet things still sell for amazing amounts and in a lot of cases, even more than they would have in chapter 1. It tells me that ebay gold is alive and well, and that a greater percentage of the game population is doing it now with chapter 2 out, than had previously done so in chapter 1.

Jun 23, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51	#34
Ultra Peepi Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: The Kaizen Order Profession: E/Me	wow, i started a interesting thread. lol